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Dave Guarino's avatar

Thank you for the nice post. There’s lots to say, and I hope this sad event at least brings more discussion of Scott’s thinking in the coming months.

A few kernels of reactions:

1. I think Scott *does* have one normative notion in SLAS, and that is that high modernism may itself be net worthwhile for lots of problems, and that the danger itself is when it comes bundled with the authoritarian use of violence. Broadly I read Scott here as saying something like, “use high modernism, not too much, and be open to iterating on your model of the world when the voices of Métis grow loud.”

2. There’s a thread as it relates to software and Métis that I think has not been pulled, and should. It’s best described in the methods people roll up as “lean startup” or “do things that don’t scale” etc. These reflect a certain notion that software can be *extraordinarily* powerful when it models the world at the most efficient level of granularity/loss, AND that much of achieving that is through constant, practical tinkering in real circumstances out in the world which reveal to you what the behavior of users and systems actually is. I’ve often thought this is in effect an elegant solution to the Métis dilemma — engage in goal oriented but non opinionated practice at a small scale, and take what we find true in the mess and scale it up. I think it’s a blind spot in discussions of tech and Scott that there is a very real folk art of discovering and exploiting Métis in these practices of early rapid iteration and testing.

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Coleman McCormick's avatar

As much as my priors made me love the ideas in Seeing Like a State, I felt the same way about the "well what shall we do then?" take. Most implementations of high modernism we have today are (IMO) net *good*, not bad, even though there've been downsides. I've always been a both-siders on many things — every system comes with pros and cons. You make trades. Somewhere between living-like-peasants with rich tribal knowledge and the authoritarian nanny state is some medium we can make work (we already do).

To me the key is avoiding the guardrail extremes, but algorithm culture seems to constantly pull people to the edges: one group wanting to go back to the middle ages, the other to drag the world into a global New Economic Order. One group crows Malthusian overpopulation and climate disaster, the other unmitigated technological acceleration. Maybe we could meet in the middle...

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